tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post1128119030224316166..comments2023-10-07T04:19:14.316-07:00Comments on A CHRISTIAN VOICE FOR GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER RIGHTS: LGBT ALLIES OF THE HOMOPHOBIC OPPRESSOR IN SABOTAGING CALIFORNIA'S PROPOSITION 8 AND OTHER LGBT CIVIL RIGHTSJerry Manekerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-52386215023515319942008-10-01T11:44:00.000-07:002008-10-01T11:44:00.000-07:00Thanks Don Charles. "Now that we know there are ...Thanks Don Charles. "Now that we know there are Gay and Straight distortion peddlers who promote marginalizing images of Gay people, we should regard all of them as enemies of the equality struggle. Isn't that what you're saying here in regard to the Folsom crowd? "<BR/><BR/>Absolutely! And I say the same thing about not only those who participate in such spectacles as the Folsom Street Fair, but all those who affirm such public events. <BR/><BR/>As far as I'm concerned, they do as much to retard civil rights for LGBT people as the most virulent homophobes can do! In reality, they're allies with each other, and too many are too dense and/or self-absorbed to know it!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-61535231955788582332008-10-01T09:12:00.000-07:002008-10-01T09:12:00.000-07:00Jerry, you're right to perceive that the organ...Jerry, you're right to perceive that the organizers of the Folsom Street Fair don't care about LGBT equality. They don't care that their display of bizarre S & M imagery feeds into harmful stereotypes about Gay people and fires up the fundie propaganda machine. On the contrary, they relish outsider status. They live for a chance to poke their fingers in the eye of the Religious Right. <BR/><BR/>They're downright gleeful at the prospect of conservative church people watching videos of their Fair and gasping in horror at bare body parts and sex toys; believe me, they get a huge kick out of that! The fundies and the perverts really do stroke each other: One group gets its propaganda, and the other group gets its thrill . . . and there's some overlap there, too. Don't bother asking either group to listen to reason. It's a waste of time.<BR/><BR/>Instead, draw a distinction: Make it clear as often as you can that the leather/S & M lifestyle is NOT synonymous with Gay identity, even though a significant number of Gay men are part of that scene. Most S & M devotees are heterosexual, and that has always been the case. It's time to explode this myth, inspired by the adult film industry, that fetish worship and rough sex are an inherent part of "Gay culture". <BR/><BR/>As we draw one distinction, we must stop drawing another: Now that we know there are Gay and Straight distortion peddlers who promote marginalizing images of Gay people, we should regard all of them as enemies of the equality struggle. Isn't that what you're saying here in regard to the Folsom crowd? <BR/><BR/>As I've told you privately, I personally find their Street Fair repugnant, but I do recognize their right to mount it. What I don't recognize as their right is advertising and promoting it as a Gay community event! To the extent that they do that, they are distortion peddlers and saboteurs of the Gay Rights movement. That's legitimate reason to denounce them, and if some people choose to get their knickers in a twist over that, too damn bad!DC HAMPTON JACOBShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884630801131861786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-22790560041460445912008-09-30T08:03:00.000-07:002008-09-30T08:03:00.000-07:00Nelson: If you think that's what I said, meant, or...Nelson: If you think that's what I said, meant, or in any way what my post was about, you missed the whole point!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-36420847667645450232008-09-30T07:07:00.000-07:002008-09-30T07:07:00.000-07:00Your recommendation, Jerry, is for the LGBT commun...Your recommendation, Jerry, is for the LGBT community to go underground again until it's safe again.<BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>You sound/write no different than those ex-gays and anti-gays who are now blaming the financial crisis on liberals and the lgbt.<BR/><BR/>We're not the problem, it's you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-58597089718347364432008-09-29T12:18:00.000-07:002008-09-29T12:18:00.000-07:00But Folsom is an issue, Nelson, as the homophobes ...But Folsom is an issue, Nelson, as the homophobes use that and its images to try to convince those on the fence to come over to their side and vote against "those Gay perverts who are ruining this country with their immorality." <BR/><BR/>Clearly, there are better, less offensive ways of raising money for charities than by feeding into, and seeming to justify, albeit falsely, the stereotypes that the homophobes have been purveying for generations. <BR/><BR/>The "religious" and secular homophobes of the world love those events, as it feeds their coffers and enables them to further articulate their hate against LGBT people; provides seeming "justification" for viewing LGBT people as "deviants," "outsiders," "abnormal hedonists," who are "a threat to our children and our country." <BR/><BR/>Homophobes will never change, no matter what images of Gay people are projected. However, if one is really concerned with acquiring full and equal LGBT civil rights, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that such events can do nothing but retard that day when those rights are finally won, and won despite the hedonistic exhibitions that fulfill all the negative stereotypes that have hitherto prevented same-sex marriage and all other Gay rights.<BR/><BR/>As I said before, if those who engage in the Folsom Street Fair deliberately decided to prevent Proposition 8 in California from failing; deliberately decided to prevent the acquisition of full and equal civil rights for LGBT people; deliberately decided to be allies of strident homophobes; deliberately decided to offend potential Straight allies; deliberately decided to offend LGBT people who do want and deserve full and equal civil rights, they couldn't be doing a better job!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-81286795941115670602008-09-29T09:57:00.000-07:002008-09-29T09:57:00.000-07:00It's you and those other guys who are making Folso...It's you and those other guys who are making Folsom into an issue, not me.<BR/><BR/>I don't see you helping when people attack me and bring up stuff from the past so don't even go there.<BR/><BR/>The Folsom Street Fair last year, like this year, is a private event which raised thousands of dollars, with the proceeds going to various organizations.<BR/><BR/>While I'm not into the BSDM thing and dressing up in leather, if some guy showing his ass and cock translates to another person donating thousands of dollars to keep an AIDS clinic or soup kitchen open, so be it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-75965741347535736052008-09-29T08:12:00.000-07:002008-09-29T08:12:00.000-07:00Nelson, you don't seem to get it or want to get it...Nelson, you don't seem to get it or want to get it! At a time when Proposition 8 in California is going to the voters, why would anyone want to stick a finger in the eye of potential allies who are going to vote on that measure and, eventually, on measures like it in the rest of the U.S? All you do is to play into the hands of the homophobes who accuse LGBT people of the very things you are supporting. At the very least, it's bad public relations, and at its worst, it's being an ally of the very people who oppress LGBT people!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-59641874045696039992008-09-29T06:48:00.000-07:002008-09-29T06:48:00.000-07:00Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....So what you're saying is: D...Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....<BR/><BR/>So what you're saying is: Don't flaunt it; Be stoic.<BR/><BR/>And you and Don wonder why all the backlash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com