tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post1192735883330325182..comments2023-10-07T04:19:14.316-07:00Comments on A CHRISTIAN VOICE FOR GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER RIGHTS: THE MYTH OF CHURCH AND STATE SEPARATIONJerry Manekerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-23128573934871985852007-11-05T20:23:00.000-08:002007-11-05T20:23:00.000-08:00Hi Justice MH: "Christianity" is of Jesus! And th...Hi Justice MH: "Christianity" is of Jesus! And the term "Christian" is to be reserved for those who follow Him and His Gospel of grace, faith, love, peace, reconciliation, and inclusiveness. <BR/><BR/>All those who demonize others; who seek to prevent others' acquisition of full and equal civil and sacramental rights; who are handmaidens to the most reactionary forces in secular society; who spread misinformation and downright lies by their preaching a false gospel of legalism, perfectionism, and exclusion, are not Christians, despite what they call themselves.<BR/><BR/>For, if we do refer to them as "Christians," the very term "Christian" has lost all meaning! Regarding "infallibility," only God is infallible!<BR/><BR/>Christians place our faith in God, and must stand up against those clergy and others who besmirch God and His Word by imposing their own twisted mind-sets and/or ignorance and/or their own hate-filled hearts onto others, thereby falsely equating their prejudices, ignorance, and mendacity with godliness. <BR/><BR/>And we are never to let them get away with that blasphemy!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-24410076105713630882007-11-05T19:29:00.000-08:002007-11-05T19:29:00.000-08:00@Jerry: Ok I now understand where you're coming fr...@Jerry: Ok I now understand where you're coming from!<BR/><BR/>But I have to say isn't it sad a religion like Christianity is the last group to support civil rights for minority groups. It's like the church has to learn through trial and error. <BR/><BR/>The Pope[John Paul] feels he's infallable, but he was begging God years ago to forgive the church for all the horrible things they have done. The bible[oh lawrd], should we view this book as a whole, a good book? So many has been oppress with their fallibe bible interpretations. <BR/><BR/>So, I see where you were coming from, but it's sad Christianity is last to fight for minority group. Also, religion contributes to the oppression. For Christianity, what would Jesus say and do if was to walk the earth again? I doubt he would want the religious right part of his ministry.Justice MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06442373049204016557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-76395651619548530232007-11-05T14:40:00.000-08:002007-11-05T14:40:00.000-08:00Hi Justice MH. Actually, we're on the same page o...Hi Justice MH. Actually, we're on the same page on this issue. Like you, I certainly don't want the institutional Church to have any kind of impact on the State regarding any matter that I can think of. My point is that the institutional Church and the State are currently enmeshed with each other; since the institutional Church is loaded with reactionary forces, it is a handmaiden to the State, and what civil rights that have been won have not come from the institutional Church. Indeed, the institutional Church has historically been the last to go along with matters pertaining to civil rights! <BR/><BR/>It is precisely because the institutional Church is enmeshed with the State that civil rights are retarded, or prevented, for LGBT people, as it provides the "justification" for viewing being Gay as a sin, as being immoral, etc. When I use the word, "Church," I'm referring to the ecclesia, "the called out ones," who take seriously Jesus' command to us to love others, and be agents of His grace in this world. Therefore, I do want His Church, as opposed to the institutional Church, to have an impact on society, speak truth to power, and address contemporary issues and problems, manifesting and encouraging love of, and respect for, others. <BR/><BR/>Politicians and the courts, when they have supported minority group rights only did so when that minority group and its allies actively fought for those rights! Politicians and the judiciary usually don't vote out of the goodness of their hearts! <BR/><BR/>In my opinion, it is only when Jesus' called out ones, and all decent people in society, engage in meaningful activism to "set the captives free" that we will move civility and democracy that much more forward; LGBT civil rights will only occur when there is meaningful grassroots activism, encouraged, aided and abetted by Jesus' Church as well as by all decent people who feel revulsion when others are persecuted and oppressed. <BR/><BR/>I don't think we disagree at all!Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-3254999385826579822007-11-05T13:12:00.000-08:002007-11-05T13:12:00.000-08:00@Jerry: I see this time we're on opposite sides of...@Jerry: I see this time we're on opposite sides of thinking on this issue, but it's no biggie you can't agree on everything.<BR/><BR/>I feel that separation of church and state is not a myth, and there's much evidence from our founding fathers to back it up.<BR/><BR/>I also feel that the church should stay out of civil affairs. We have a democracy. We don't need religion waving a bible telling people what to do like dictators. <BR/><BR/>The religious right would love to strip the first amendment, and other resrictions so they can impose their literalist interpretations of the bible on all of us.<BR/><BR/>If it wasn't for the U.S consititution[u.s supreme court] then women, african americans, and gays would not be where they are today. Nancy Polosie would not be House Speaker. Women would not have high job positions today. African Americans would not have a voice in Congress, good jobs, or freedom and ownership of their bodies. Gays would be arrested for having sex[intimacy] in the privacy of their homes, job[some states, hate crimes[some states], and etc.<BR/><BR/>AS a African American gay young man I fully support the separation of church and state. I have had many debates and arguments about this. I understand we have different thinking on this. But I feel the Church and the bible have NO place governing a nation especially the land of the free aka America! <BR/><BR/>The post was well put, but I disagree!Justice MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06442373049204016557noreply@blogger.com