tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post8985961795936388952..comments2023-10-07T04:19:14.316-07:00Comments on A CHRISTIAN VOICE FOR GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER RIGHTS: THE TRUTH, DENIAL, REVULSION AND THE REINFORCING OF STEREOTYPESJerry Manekerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-60103166154504042202008-03-12T12:26:00.000-07:002008-03-12T12:26:00.000-07:00Thanks, Don Charles, for this information and for ...Thanks, Don Charles, for this information and for the kind words on my behalf.Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-65601597127312274932008-03-12T10:30:00.000-07:002008-03-12T10:30:00.000-07:00Here is the etymology of the word Lesbian, taken f...Here is the etymology of the word Lesbian, taken from www.etymonline.com:<BR/><BR/>Lesbian (adj.)1591, from L. Lesbius, from Gk. lesbios "of Lesbos," Gk. island in northeastern Aegean Sea, home of Sappho, great lyric poet whose erotic and romantic verse embraced women as well as men, hence meaning "relating to homosexual relations between women" (1890; Lesbianism in this sense is attested from 1870) and the noun, first recorded 1925. Slang variant lez, les is from 1929; lesbo first attested 1940. Before this, the principal fig. use (common in 17c.) was lesbian rule (1601) a mason's rule of lead, of a type used on Lesbos, which could be bent to fit the curves of a molding; hence, "pliant morality or judgment": "And this is the nature of the equitable, a correction of law where it is defective owing to its universality. ... For when the thing is indefinite the rule also is indefinite, like the leaden rule used in making the Lesbian moulding; the rule adapts itself to the shape of the stone and is not rigid, and so too the decree is adapted to the facts." [Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics"]<BR/><BR/>Basically, "Lesbian" means a native of Lesbos, a Greek isle where erotic relationships between women were accepted. It's a romantic term that conjures up images of the poet Sappho, of Wonder Woman and amazons on Paradise Island. It has come to symbolize female eroticism, but that symbolism is a far cry from "dyke", which etymologists trace back to a vulgar word for the vagina, and "bulldyke", formerly a verb which literally means "a masculine woman who penetrates other women's vaginas". "Lez" and "Lesbo", corruptions of "Lesbian" in the same way "nigger" is a corruption of "Negro", are indeed offensive. <BR/><BR/>As indicated by the short-lived understanding of Lesbian as having to do with "pliant morality", there have been and continue to be attempts to attach derogatory meanings to this word and to the word Gay, but neither term is derogatory in origin. We can claim them without denigrating our identities. Not so the terms "dyke", "faggot" and "queer". Check the definitions and etymologies of those words if you doubt me. Richard, your attempt to paint all names applied to LGBT folk as derogatory is feeble and dishonest.<BR/><BR/>The idea of gathering LGBT people under a transgender umbrella is not suggested by me, but by the very definition of the word. Check Merriam-Webster Online. It means: "Having personal characteristics that transcend traditional gender boundaries and corresponding sexual norms." If that doesn't define who we are, I don't know what does. Journalist Gabriel Rotello also advocates for "transgender" as an umbrella term. And in case you haven't noticed, our community is already split and has been for a long time. That split was recently exacerbated by the ENDA debacle where the Human Rights Campaign kicked transfolk to the curb. <BR/><BR/>If you run a blog, Richard, and you use it to advocate that LGBT folk embrace insulting terms like "queer" and "dyke", God forbid that Focus On The Family ever sees it . . . but the likelihood is that they already have. Your confirmation of Gay abnormality reinforces their bigotry. They don't have to take it out of context in order to exploit it. However, they do have to take my writings out of context. Maybe they have done so. That's unfortunate, but I'm not going to stop speaking the truth just because some may choose to twist my words. <BR/><BR/>When I say Jesus Christ was Gay-bashed, I speak the truth! I will not soft-pedal the truth, not for any reason or for anybody. Christ, The Gay Martyr is directed at confused Gay people like yourself; I couldn't care less what the Religious Right thinks or says about it! If they don't like my blog, I shouldn't wonder why. I excoriate their ranks on a regular basis. <BR/><BR/>Richard, I think you use feigned concern about the statements Jerry and I make as an excuse to drop snide, catty and condescending comments. Jerry Maneker has a history of strong advocacy for LGBT people and issues! His many writings on our behalf radiate outrage at the justice denied us. How dare your ass fall up in his blog and speculate as to whether he's an "OK guy"? You, sir, are NOT an "OK guy"! You are a troll. A very SMALL troll! You need to grow up.<BR/><BR/>One thing I do agree with Richard about, Jerry: Harvey Fierstein's "Torch Song Trilogy" is an excellent movie that you should see. Unfortunately, the dignity message that Fierstein conveys in that film seems to have been fallen on stony ground.DC HAMPTON JACOBShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884630801131861786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-30336819479336870322008-03-10T10:48:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:48:00.000-07:00Hi Richard: I do remember Del Martin and Phyllis L...Hi Richard: I do remember Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon. They've been together for at least 52 years, and I believe they were the first to be married in SF before the courts struck those marriages down.<BR/><BR/> I never remember the term "lesbian" being a hurtful or a hateful word or a word used in hate against a woman, unless the word was used by someone who was a hater. It never had the hateful connotations that "dyke" had and still has.<BR/><BR/>The major concern I have is that, although I do understand the desire to reclaim a word that has historically been used to demean people and appropriate it as a word of empowerment, I really believe that it is counter-productive to do so. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't really matter, except psychologically, what the motivation is for the use of that word, and other such historically hateful words. <BR/><BR/>What is important, however, is how the majority of people who are on the fence on this issue will view lesbians and gay men which is critical in the fight for equal rights. To be seen as "the other," "the threat," "the enemy," "the outsider," can do nothing but help retard the quest for full and equal civil rights. <BR/><BR/>I have seen "Angels in America," but I haven't yet seen the others. "Angels in America" was powerful, to say the least.Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-46052578789971611272008-03-10T10:29:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:29:00.000-07:00I am simply curious if you are aware that Del and ...I am simply curious if you are aware that Del and Phyllis joyfully accepted the perjorative label "lesbian" ? In the 1950's and 1960's the word "lesbian" had the same meaning as you see the word "dyke" having today. Del and Phyllis and their fellow women in the Daughters of Bilitis, I am told by other Daughters of Bilitis, decided to claim the word "lesbian" as their own instead of allowing the heterosupremists to use the word as a hate filled term of derision.<BR/><BR/>An interesting bit of herstory I thought you should know.<BR/><BR/>Have you seen other good movies like "Torch Song Trilogy" with Harvey Firestein and Matthew Broderick; "Trick"; "Angels In America" with a host of known and wonderful actors (an HBO movie out of DVD. ?<BR/><BR/>I still maintain that Don Charles suggestion of calling all GLBTQ people "transgender" will split the GLBTQ community in a war of words. And that if Focus on the Family or Mr Peter LaBarbera looked at his website, they would have enough canon fodder to use against the GLBTQ community for years ... calling Christ's sacrifice on the cross a gay bashing would sorely insult them, I fear, much less the gnostic texts. But I hope they never come across his blog. <BR/><BR/>I hope that Rev. Bruce of Oroville is correct and you an OK guy, Jerry. I trust his word. Meanwhile I am much more concerned about the hate spewed by Rep. Kern of OK, revealed this weekend and how the GLBTQ community will respond. Locally and nationally. Time will tell.<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-60884951721761691572008-03-08T13:29:00.000-08:002008-03-08T13:29:00.000-08:00Thanks so much, Don Charles. It means a lot to me...Thanks so much, Don Charles. It means a lot to me. Let's just hope and pray that LGBT people read our posts and see that they don't have to any longer buy into the definitions that homophobes have historically placed on them, or any longer fool themselves that they have neutralized hateful terms by appropriating them.Jerry Manekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00748201321055468172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2688218899576616463.post-3435376270091287062008-03-08T12:36:00.000-08:002008-03-08T12:36:00.000-08:00Jerry,I'm almost speechless. This is not only a m...Jerry,<BR/><BR/>I'm almost speechless. This is not only a magnificent post, but a sermon, and one that you can give not just once, but many times. I hope that you will. It will open many Straight people's eyes to how deeply heterosexism can wound the spirit.<BR/><BR/>The excerpt of that "I Am A Dyke" post was exceedingly painful for me to read. It's even more heartbreaking than I expected it would be, like an extended sob. I made the right decision not to read the whole thing. If our essays can motivate even one Lesbian to see herself differently than this, then we can say we've helped God do His work.DC HAMPTON JACOBShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884630801131861786noreply@blogger.com