Tuesday, December 4, 2007


If this isn't hateful and pathetic, please tell me what is?

"A Fort Worth church has quite the internal struggle. Broadway Baptist Church remains split on whether or not to include gay people in their 125th anniversary celebratory directory."

The very fact that this issue is even being debated, shows how moribund, sick, and demented this and other such "churches" are in dealing with their Gay members.

Of course, the question must be asked as to why in the world any self-respecting Gay person would even think of attending such a "church" in the first place?

For that matter, how could any Christian worthy of the name attend such a "church?"

Unfortunately, most of the institutional Church is comprised of such "churches," and the only way to take away their credibility, their teeth, is to avoid such institutions like the plague that they are.

Godly people have nothing to do with such discrimination, as to do so spits in the very face of God!
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Anonymous said...

Jerry, I couldn't hold back so I posted on Queerty. I needed to respond to Chuck demanding that gays repent of their sin.

Chuck, divorce and remarriage is the sin of adultery. A continuous sin I might add. I wonder how many of them have been divorced and remarried (other than being unfaithful to their spouses) that wish to be placed within the church directory? How many are wealthy? The problem is people like you that demand repentance for a sin of non-choice that divorce/remarriage clearly is, but see no problem with having those in the continuous sin of adultery being regarded as good people of church and society. It is those that are within religious institutions that seek to oppress those that they do not understand and then claim to love them while they repeatedly beat them in the head with a Bible. Repentance is not needed for those that are gay. We simply are the way we are. And I challenge anyone to find anywhere in the Bible that states that Love of two people is a sin. Guess what? You can’t! God is Love and Jesus himself said that Love sums up the Law which, btw, we as Christians are no longer bound by. Christ freed us from the Law when he said these words, “It is finished”. Also, the Law was never given to us Gentiles anyway. It was for the Jews. So, again, we are not bound by the Law.

Yes, Chuck, God will judge us. All of us. But thankfully his judgement is pure and not stained by the bigotry that you and others that seem to profess everytime you raise your Bible in condemnation against gay people and others you find not of your mentality. I’ll pray for you.

When I tell people to show me where in the Bible it says that two people that love one another is a sin they either cannot or point to the "clobber passages" which I point out have to do with idolatry practices than same-sex love. I'm amazed that these same Christians that hold so firmly to Scripture are willing to allow divorce and remarriage in their religious institutions, something Jesus clearly stated was adultery and then condemn gay people which Jesus clearly said nothing about.

It simply boggles my mind.

Jerry Maneker said...

Thanks Ken R. and beautifully put! The major reason, in my opinion, that they don't condemn divorce and remarriage is because if they did so they'd lose at least half their congregations, and the money that comes with their membership.

LGBT people are considered as "safe" targets to persecute, because they represent a very small segment of most of their congregations. Follow the money! There's money is condemning LGBT people; it makes people feel self-righteous, and it yields fiery sermons that get the juices flowing so even more money comes to the collection plates.

These people who like to use the purity laws to justify their homophobia think nothing of playing football (touching the skin of a dead pig); wearing mixed fibers in their clothes, etc. However, they need and use LGBT people as an out-group to condemn (And don't believe the "hate the sin, love the sinner" bullshit!) for assorted psychological, material, and social gains.

Believe me, once LGBT people are given full and equal civil rights within secular society, these very same pastors and their followers will proudly march in Gay Pride parades!

Thanks for your excellent comment.


Ken R,

I don't mean to be provocative, but I have to say you gave the bigot too much ground! You left him room to say that Scripture condemns Gay love. Here's what you should have asked him: "Do you worship Scripture, or do you worship God? Do you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, found in the Gospels, or do you follow the teachings of Moses and/or the Apostles? There is a difference! A Christian is mandated to follow the Christ's teachings only. What's more, Jesus Christ affirmed Gay people!"

Yes, He did! He called us "eunuchs born" from our mother's wombs. In ancient times, the word "eunuch" did not mean "castrated man". It referred to men who abstained from sex with women, men known to be sexually attracted to other men. It was the equivalent of what we call Gay men today, and Jesus Christ certainly knew that. You can find His reference to born eunuchs in the 19th chapter of Matthew. In that same chapter, you can find listed all the laws Christians are mandated to follow.

The bigot you confronted evidently thinks (or wants you to think) that Christians observe the Old Testament Holiness Code, found in the book of Leviticus. Christians have NEVER observed that code! The Savior sacrificed himself on the cross so that His followers would be free from it. Anyone who believes otherwise has been misindoctrinated.

This is why I insist that Gay people have a working knowledge of the Bible, regardless of their personal religious beliefs! We simply cannot continue to cede Scriptural expertise to the fundie wackos! These Bible worshipers purposefully distort Scripture, and anyone who knows what the Bible really says and what the appropriate contexts are can catch them in their lies. It's easy to do, and you don't have to be a Bible scholar.

I hope you will visit my blog, Christ, The Gay Martyr, and read my current post, "The Miseducation of Donnie McClurkin"(http://christthegaymartyr.blogspot.com/2007/11/miseducation-of-donnie-mcclurkin-part.html). You should also check out an older essay of mine called "How To Beat The Bible Beaters, Part Three"(http://christthegaymartyr.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-to-beat-bible-beaters-part-three.html). You'll find weapons there that you can use against Bible bigotry.

Winsome said...

In love to all who are out there, would you humbly read Romans 1:18-32 I'd love to hear what you think.
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. This is not a stone, we are all sinners saved by grace! ...and love covers a multitude of sins, I pray we are filled to the fullest measure with Christ's love.
wishing you peace, love , and joy!

Jerry Maneker said...

Hi Winsome: However, you fail to quote the very next verse that provides the context for the verses to which you do refer, and it's found in Romans 2:1: "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."

Moreover, I suggest you read the excellent book by Rick Brentlinger entitled, "Gay Christian 101," that deals with issues such as the verses in Romans to which you refer.

Also, if you read the verses to which you refer, you'll notice that homosexuals are not being talked about by Paul but heterosexuals who "gave up" the behaviors that were not natural to them. These people FIRST turned their backs on God, and THEN God "...gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another...."

Clearly, Paul is talking about those who worshipped false gods and then God gave them up to behaviors that were unnatural to them. The women "did CHANGE" their heterosexual orientation to engage in same-sex behavior; the men LEFT relationships with women to engage in sexual behavior that was unnatural to them.

There is a lot more that can be said regarding biblical exegesis regarding these, and other, "clobber passages," but you'll find the best refutation of the conventional interpretations of such passages that are erroneously quoted to condemn same-sex love in Brentlinger's book.

Best wishes, Jerry.